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What does "down-low" mean to you?
[Deondray Gossett] Traditional Meaning: Slang term for anything that's a secret, i.e., "I'm proposing to Cynthia. Don't tell her though. I wanna keep it on the down low." Down Low as in "below the radar" and out of people's consciousness.Media Hype Definition: Any black man who is married to a woman but also secretly sleeps with men.My Definition: Men of color who lead double lives. They may have wives, boyfriends, or be single. The bottom line is that they are refusing to acknowledge that they are gay or bisexual. The "DL" doesn't always involve men cheating on women with other men. The DL also includes men who may be in committed relationships with other men, but are pretending to be straight for the outside world. DL also includes men who don't deny that they have sex with men, but call themselves DL because they don't want the negativeconnotations that come with the term "gay". Many DL men feel as if the gay label emasculates them and conjures up images of rainbow flags, pride parades, over-the-top sexual practices, chaps, cross-dressing, etc. They choose to be called DL or MSM (Men Who Sleep with Men) because these titles/labels, they feel, keep their masculinity in tact and unthreatened.
Were you a former male on the "down low" and if so how many years have you and your partner been on the "down-low"?
[Deondray Gossett] Not in the sensational sense of the term. Quincy and I were on the "DL" for the first seven years of our relationship because we didn't want some of our family or friends knowing. Both of us come from very strong religious/homophobic families, and from very early ages we picked up cues from our families that said homosexuality was deplorable and would not be tolerated under any circumstance. When I was 16, my grandmother (father's mother) caught me and my first boyfriend lip-lockedand told me that if I didn't seek psychological help that she would disown me. So, everything I did from that point on was to accommodate my grandmother, father, mother, and siblings to be the boy they all wanted and demanded for me to be. After Quincy and I became more independent and less reliant on family for financial support, we started coming out to close friends and family members; however my mom's side of the family had known of our relationship from the beginning. Quincy's family and my father's side had no idea. We pegged them to be less tolerant than my mom's side of the family.
Would you qualify "down low" as deception, if so, why?
[Deondray Gossett] Down low is only a deception when you're deceiving another person that you're in a sexual relationship with. If you're just pretending to be straight for appearances and don't have wives or girlfriends or husbands and boyfriends, but are just trying to maintain a straight appearance for social gain, then that's not deception, that's asurvival mechanism. DL with a woman: self explanatory. No one likes being deceived by a spouse or lover, no matter what the sex is of the person they're cheating on you with. This situation gets more complicated when a man cheats on a woman with a man or a woman cheats on a man with another woman. This causes feelings of inadequacy from the person being cheated on because they suddenly feel as if there's nothing they can do to compete with the opposite sex for their lover's affections. Then when you usher in the perceived HIV risks, it becomes a question of life or death. I used the word "perceived" because many of the assumptions about DL men being the p
rimary catalyst for new cases of African American women being infected with HIV are completely false and largely unstudied. In fact, the CDC released a study late last year that stated most of these women were primarily infected while having unprotected heterosexual sex, with the second most common cause being intravenous drug use. Contracting HIV from DL men was at the bottom of the list.
Are these men living fictional lives?
[Deondray Gossett] Absolutely! They are not living their authentic selves. Contrary to political correctness, sexuality IS a big part of who we are, and not being able to express that freely stilts authenticity. DL men and women would not choose to be DL if it weren't for violence, intolerance, homophobia, and religious beliefs. If transgender, homosexuality and bisexuality were perceived just as normal as heterosexuality, we would not even be having this discussion.
In your own words, what is the DL Chronicles about and why do you feel is significant to television?
[Deondray Gossett] The DL Chronicles is about men of color who lead sexually duplicitous lives. We were angered at the way the gay community was being raked over the coals over the whole DL thing. It was never viewed as something separate from the openly gay and happy people, but rather as an offshoot or subset. At the end of the day, gays were still to blame. After all, the DL man was only the messenger of the HIV virus, not the carrier. It stigmatized gay men, damaged black men in general (because now we were all suspects), and put unnecessary fear in the hearts of African American women. We had found a scapegoat. Instead of taking an empirical look at the epidemic, we resorted to an old fashioned witch hunt where the dirty gays were to blame. It was an easy thing to take root at the time when you consider the political climate at that moment: the push for gay marriage, the division of the African American community over these issues, Bush's right-wing, religious, anti-gay views, the black church becoming very vocal about its disdain for homosexuality, gay lynching in Jamaica and Africa... the list goes on and on. The brew had already been boiling, and when the DL took center stage, African Americans were already prepped and seasoned to drink the soup straight down, no questions asked. As if this was brand new. After reading articles in the New York Times, seeing segments on Oprah, and listening to what the people were saying on the street, it became clear that something had to be done that presented another perspective and told the whole story. These articles and talk show segments did a very good job of explaining the phenomenon, but not one of them attempted to answer the most pressing question: why? This series attempts to answer that question. DL men do not arbitrarily marry women for the simple sake of deception. Many of them feel trapped, and extremely unwilling to adopt a life of "sin" or face ridicule, shame, and in some cases, violence. Also, many DL men don't even have wives or girlfriends. In many cases, they were in stable, committed relationships with other men, but pretended to be straight so as not lose their place in society, with their families and friends, or in the work place. They have a lot to gain by passing, and they assume they have a lot to lose by coming out. We did the series as an anthology because there is no singular way that one can be on the DL. Every story is a different cast, with different backgrounds, and different story arcs. We tell every perspective and attempt to cover every facet of the DL phenomenon from DL married man to the DL high school student who has never been married and who has never had a sexual encounter with another male, but knows he's different, and knows he has these desires, and has been convinced by his surroundings that he can't openly express these feelings.
How does it different from other LGBT pictures like Noah's Arc and Queer As Folk?
[Deondray Gossett] It differs from Queer as Folk in two ways: 1. It's an African American point of view, 2. And it deals mostly with men who are coming to terms with their sexuality as opposed to men who are already settled with who they are. It hasn't been studied, and this may be a huge miscalculation, but it has been my experience that a disproportionate amount African American men are still closeted when compared to their white counterparts. And I think this is because, contrary to political correctness, African Americans on the whole seem to be less tolerant of gays than their white counterparts. Again, this hasn't been studied; this is merely my own personal observation. There are a lot more outspoken anti-gay blacks per capita than whites. When you consider the US population of blacks and how many of them have come out publicly about their intolerance for gays (i.e., Tim Hardaway, Busta Rhymes, Church pastors, Ja Rule, Usher, Mos Def, 2 Pac, our family members, etc.) compared to whites who have done the same, the scale tips further on the black side. It differs from Noah's Arc in its attempt to tell the stories of those men who are often ignored and kept secret. We all know the out and proud gay man. It's the story that's getting told more and more in the white community; however, black gay media has not yet fully graduated to the out and proud phase, as a vast majority of us are still in the closet and still uncomfortable with being gay. The DL Chronicles is about the guy that is gay/bi but finds himself in circumstances that do not provide the atmosphere for him to safely come out. This is not to say that Noah's Arc doesn't have its place. It's a perfect companion to the stories of The DL Chronicles. While one helps usher DL men out of the darkness, the other celebrates freedom and self acceptance right in bold light. They are both needed as both sides of the fence still exist in significant numbers in the African American community.
Why a predominately black televised event?
[Deondray Gossett] Like it or not, the specific phrase "down low" was created by black people to denote anything that is a secret. The meaning has evolved and is now the infamous DL, which specifically references black men. Because we're trying to shed new light on the phenomenon, answer the "why's," and redefine the term, it wouldn't have been advantageous to call it "The Closet" as that encompasses more than just men of color. We wanted to tackle head-on, the very layered, very controversial DL
, which specifically denotes men of color and their specific set of circumstances, backgrounds, demographics, economics, and social standing. Calling it by any other name or casting white actors in the lead roles would derail from our original intentions. This is not to say that this phenomenon is specific to black men. We know that this phenomenon is universal and crosses race, class, and socio-economics; however we've seen those shows before. Brokeback Mountain is nothing more than the DL as it applies to white men, but somehow white stories about the Closet don't carry as much weight or stigma as the term DL. We wanted to attempt to lift that stigma and tell the whole unembellished story of so many men that we know. We wanted DL stories to be understood, and taken out of the sensationalism arena.
What is the most significant episode of the televised event project and why? [Deondray Gossett] Every episode is significant. Every single one so far has had such an enormous impact on audiences across the US, Canada, South America, and the UK. Every episode dismantles a belief system or institution and turns it on its head and holds a mirror back to society and asks everyone who is watching, "What part do you play in this phenomenon?" What many don't realize is how much we all perpetuate and support the DL. The DL man is the executor, sure, but what about the homophobic society, what about the revered super-masculine male in the black culture, what about theintolerable openly gay guy who shuns everyone who is not out and proud, what about the mother who helps to raise effemophobes by carelessly throwing out phrases like, "don't be a sissy" or "Stop acting like a little girl," what about the fathers who condemn homosexuals openly to their sons as a right of passage or a form of masculine comradery, what about the pastor who preaches fire and brimstone for all sexual deviants, what about the hip hop artists who regularly call other rappers faggots as a way to demoralize and mame their reputations - the lowest form of disrespect, what about the gay guy who allows his lover to have a wife or girlfriend, what about the girl who doesn't ask for her lover's HIV status and doesn't regularly get tested, what about the gay guys who do the same? Homophobia is all around us, and we are all participants - gay or straight.
Why create such a televised event, and make it apart of your life's work?
[Deondray Gossett] If we weren't brave enough to address the issue in a meaningful way, it probably never would have been done in this manner. We know first hand about this phenomenon, and wanted to shed light on the truth, and the why's as opposed to the victim/predator stance that we are already so familiar with. It was a catharsis for us. Our wounds healed as we created and shot this show, and self love and acceptance comes out through the screen to the viewer in a way that's unthreatening, but really causes you to self-examine, and gives you some insight on how to live more authentically or shows you the consequences of living in-authentically.
Do you feel there is a difference between the men on the "DL" and"closeted" men?
[Deondray Gossett] Fundamentally, no. Culturally, yes. African American men have a separate set of social obligations and assumptions that are unique to them. For example, historically the emasculinization of African American men has done much to rip away a black man's identity and his place in society. He has been trying to find that place ever since. Today we see a phenomenon that is used as a defense mechanism, called the "cool pose". It's a kind of swagger that black men put on to preserver their masculinity and their place in society. Today we hear young kids calling it, "acting hard." It's the same thing. We see it in hip hop, on the street, in gangsters. If anything comes along that threatens this swagger and this new found place and respect in society, it has to be eliminated. It's sure and sudden social death for a black boy in the inner city to be labeled as a punk, pussy, or faggot, regardless of sexual preference. Hip hop has done a great deal epitomize black masculinity as the standard; however fictitious and unwarranted this may be, it's a great moment in time for black masculinity. It not only has found its place, but it has become the standard for American Masculinity. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to maintain this status, which is why hip hop finds itself so utterly anti-gay and homophobic- it's threatened by it because it stands to ruin everything that's been gained. Religion and black culture are so intertwined that they are almost indistinguishable from one another. There is a strong religious influence and pressure to not go against Biblical scripture and teachings. Many gay/bi black men feel that sex with another man is a sin against God, and fear the consequences of that behavior. Try as hard as they might to thwart these feelings and try to "save" themselves by marrying often find that the desire gnaws at them so strongly that they finally act on it, and before you know it, they have created a DL situation. The African American culture does little to include gay/lesbian figures in its history or its media. It's still a dark secret. However, white media has been unafraid to do this for some time. White youth seeing these images don't feel as alone or afraid of being who they are. It's only been with the creation of Noah's Arc, Punks, Brother to Brother, Dirty Laundry, and The DL Chronicles, that black gays/lesbians have been included into black society in a serious or meaningful sort of way.What has been the hardest struggle in the filming process?
[Deondray Gossett] Low Budgets and limited casting options. There are many African American actors both straight and gay who shy away from playing roles like these. Some are afraid of being type-cast (even if they are gay) while others just don't want to be thought of as gay.
In episode Wes, the first episode, it pictures a lawfully-wedded man having an affair with his brother-in-law. Why was this chosen as the pilot episode?
[Deondray Gossett] It was the episode that most resembled the scenario that people were accustomed to seeing when it came to the DL Phenomenon; however, as you watch the episode, you begin to understand the DL phenomenon from a different perspective. The story is complicated and doesn't try to choose a side. It humanizes every character involved and you get small glimpses into their minds and start to understand some of the reasons that they are all making the decisions that they're making. It was controversial on purpose. We wanted to get everyone's attention - the straits and the gays. After all, this show will do very little to change minds if we're always preaching to the choir. We had to provide something that was easily identifiable by all who watched, then once we got their attention, we began to detangle all of the misconceptions and assumptions about the DL in subsequent episodes.
The men cast in these pictures are the archetypes of attractive men. Was there a selected type of man that you were looking for in these pictures?
[Deondray Gossett] We had to cast men that were going to lure our target audiences: gay/bi men and strait women. This strategy has been very successful with getting our small and, at the time, independent film series some much needed hype. We knew going into this that we would be met with resistance from all sides on just the title alone. We were able to get people to forego the title and draw them in by the attractive lead cast members that were featured in our ad campaigns. Then once we got them in the seats, they got schooled. Not that this was supposed to be a "message" film, but it is supposed to be socially conscious, yet entertaining. You can laugh, cry, and shout, while watching the episodes, while all the while still being enlightened. We call the show "Edutainment." It's one of the best ways to administer a message without coming off so preachy and boring that people don't want to sit and listen. People have come out of our screenings with their mouths agape, not fully understanding how we packed so many messages, provided so much entertainment, and left people with so much to think about in just 30 minutes. Every decision we make about the show is calculated. Every aspect affects our decisions, from the target audience to the social climate.
In your opinion, which characters represented some of the experiences of that of you and your partner, respectively?
[Deondray Gossett] All of the characters represent us in some way or another. Each one has a small circumstance or behaves in a way that is reflective of me or Quincy, but I would say that the characters that most resemble us back when we were DL are the characters Mark (Ulrich Que) and Donte (Colbert Alembert) from episode: Mark. This is one of the only episodes that is based specifically on me and Quincy. We did the fake room thing when company or family would come visit. We would change the den into another room to pretend we were just roommates. We had family that would show up unannounced and want to spend the night, which would cause us stress because we'd have to fight over who would have to sleep in the fake room. It was ridiculous when we think back on those times, but it made perfect sense to us then, in those uncertain times when we weren't sure what coming out would do to our relationships with the people we loved; the same people who conveyed to us during our formative years their utter disdain for gay folks.
What do you think "DL" is seen as wrong in context in US pop and mainstream culture?
[Deondray Gossett] I believe that there are aspects of the DL that are wrong. No one should ever deceive or be deceived. This show never condones that kind of behavior, but sometimes we believe that an unfair emphasis gets placed on any infidelity that involves a woman and two men. Betrayal is betrayal, and it is always wrong; however when a man cheats with another man on a woman it becomes Armageddon not just a simple betrayal, and I think that unconsciously sends out hidden, negative messages. It's bigoted and a double-standard. It all stems from homophobia, hype, and the uneducated declaration that bi/gay men are passing HIV to their wives and girlfriends at an alarming rate. When in fact, it's one of the least common ways of transmission. Then there is an aspect of the DL that hurts no one but the person who is in hiding. There are a large number of men who don't involve women in their charades of heterosexuality. They are just simply trying to survive inside of this gay-hostile institution. It's simple a survival tactic, and I don't know if I could call that wrong. As an African American I used to conform to many ideals, belief systems, and social norms that I didn't have to do when I was alone at home. I did this to secure employment, get promotions, to survive. It's hard to categorize this simply as wrong. It's too complicated for such an easy categorization. I think it's necessary; however I am also aware of some of the dying you have to do in order to maintain this exterior. At some point, after living inauthentically for so long, you will begin to get so boxed in that you eventually will implode on yourself, and what's left is the real you. And once that happens, you feel completely whole, and then there's no turning back from that kind of resolution and freedom. The DL is complicated and can't be answered in short little antidotes, which again is why we had to do this series as an anthology. People like dichotomous, black and white answers to everything, but what we most often find is that there is no one answer for most questions. People are very uncomfortable with unknowns. That's why we despise the DL man so much. He's not easily identifiable. He breaks the rules. He's under the radar. He's an enigma. That bothers people.
In your experiences, what made it uncomfortable for you to just "come out"?
[Deondray Gossett] Read my answers above and add that I was also very strong in my Christian faith. I knew what the Bible said, I knew what my father felt about gays, my grandmother threatened to disown me. I had no choice, but to hide or keep the feelings in check... neither were successful.
Why don't these indivivduals just "come out?"
[Deondray Gossett] For all the reasons I said above plus the fear of being ostracized, loss of family, and sometime loss of life. People seem to forget that gays are still being attacked on the streets - google the recent attacks in Jamaica, New York, Los Angeles, Africa, Colorado, Detroit, Chicago, and Texas.
Why did you decide to "come out"?
[Deondray Gossett] I had to live authentically. When a rumor got out about me being gay to some of my closest friends, rather than deny it again, I decided to call my mother and tell her the truth. To my astonishment, she said she already knew and had known since I was a kid. After I told my mother, not much else mattered. Plus, as I said earlier, once you get a taste of your authentic self, there's no going back. It took some years to tell some other people in my family, but it got easier and easier each time, and it wasn't always accepted with open arms, but it also wasn't as traumatic as it had been for some friends of mine who had been put out of the house and disowned by their families. My family had to reconsider everything that they had previously believed about gay people. They loved me, and had to reconcile this inside of their minds in order to still be in my life.
[Deondray Gossett] Traditional Meaning: Slang term for anything that's a secret, i.e., "I'm proposing to Cynthia. Don't tell her though. I wanna keep it on the down low." Down Low as in "below the radar" and out of people's consciousness.Media Hype Definition: Any black man who is married to a woman but also secretly sleeps with men.My Definition: Men of color who lead double lives. They may have wives, boyfriends, or be single. The bottom line is that they are refusing to acknowledge that they are gay or bisexual. The "DL" doesn't always involve men cheating on women with other men. The DL also includes men who may be in committed relationships with other men, but are pretending to be straight for the outside world. DL also includes men who don't deny that they have sex with men, but call themselves DL because they don't want the negativeconnotations that come with the term "gay". Many DL men feel as if the gay label emasculates them and conjures up images of rainbow flags, pride parades, over-the-top sexual practices, chaps, cross-dressing, etc. They choose to be called DL or MSM (Men Who Sleep with Men) because these titles/labels, they feel, keep their masculinity in tact and unthreatened.
Were you a former male on the "down low" and if so how many years have you and your partner been on the "down-low"?
[Deondray Gossett] Not in the sensational sense of the term. Quincy and I were on the "DL" for the first seven years of our relationship because we didn't want some of our family or friends knowing. Both of us come from very strong religious/homophobic families, and from very early ages we picked up cues from our families that said homosexuality was deplorable and would not be tolerated under any circumstance. When I was 16, my grandmother (father's mother) caught me and my first boyfriend lip-lockedand told me that if I didn't seek psychological help that she would disown me. So, everything I did from that point on was to accommodate my grandmother, father, mother, and siblings to be the boy they all wanted and demanded for me to be. After Quincy and I became more independent and less reliant on family for financial support, we started coming out to close friends and family members; however my mom's side of the family had known of our relationship from the beginning. Quincy's family and my father's side had no idea. We pegged them to be less tolerant than my mom's side of the family.
Would you qualify "down low" as deception, if so, why?
[Deondray Gossett] Down low is only a deception when you're deceiving another person that you're in a sexual relationship with. If you're just pretending to be straight for appearances and don't have wives or girlfriends or husbands and boyfriends, but are just trying to maintain a straight appearance for social gain, then that's not deception, that's asurvival mechanism. DL with a woman: self explanatory. No one likes being deceived by a spouse or lover, no matter what the sex is of the person they're cheating on you with. This situation gets more complicated when a man cheats on a woman with a man or a woman cheats on a man with another woman. This causes feelings of inadequacy from the person being cheated on because they suddenly feel as if there's nothing they can do to compete with the opposite sex for their lover's affections. Then when you usher in the perceived HIV risks, it becomes a question of life or death. I used the word "perceived" because many of the assumptions about DL men being the p
rimary catalyst for new cases of African American women being infected with HIV are completely false and largely unstudied. In fact, the CDC released a study late last year that stated most of these women were primarily infected while having unprotected heterosexual sex, with the second most common cause being intravenous drug use. Contracting HIV from DL men was at the bottom of the list.Are these men living fictional lives?
[Deondray Gossett] Absolutely! They are not living their authentic selves. Contrary to political correctness, sexuality IS a big part of who we are, and not being able to express that freely stilts authenticity. DL men and women would not choose to be DL if it weren't for violence, intolerance, homophobia, and religious beliefs. If transgender, homosexuality and bisexuality were perceived just as normal as heterosexuality, we would not even be having this discussion.
In your own words, what is the DL Chronicles about and why do you feel is significant to television?
[Deondray Gossett] The DL Chronicles is about men of color who lead sexually duplicitous lives. We were angered at the way the gay community was being raked over the coals over the whole DL thing. It was never viewed as something separate from the openly gay and happy people, but rather as an offshoot or subset. At the end of the day, gays were still to blame. After all, the DL man was only the messenger of the HIV virus, not the carrier. It stigmatized gay men, damaged black men in general (because now we were all suspects), and put unnecessary fear in the hearts of African American women. We had found a scapegoat. Instead of taking an empirical look at the epidemic, we resorted to an old fashioned witch hunt where the dirty gays were to blame. It was an easy thing to take root at the time when you consider the political climate at that moment: the push for gay marriage, the division of the African American community over these issues, Bush's right-wing, religious, anti-gay views, the black church becoming very vocal about its disdain for homosexuality, gay lynching in Jamaica and Africa... the list goes on and on. The brew had already been boiling, and when the DL took center stage, African Americans were already prepped and seasoned to drink the soup straight down, no questions asked. As if this was brand new. After reading articles in the New York Times, seeing segments on Oprah, and listening to what the people were saying on the street, it became clear that something had to be done that presented another perspective and told the whole story. These articles and talk show segments did a very good job of explaining the phenomenon, but not one of them attempted to answer the most pressing question: why? This series attempts to answer that question. DL men do not arbitrarily marry women for the simple sake of deception. Many of them feel trapped, and extremely unwilling to adopt a life of "sin" or face ridicule, shame, and in some cases, violence. Also, many DL men don't even have wives or girlfriends. In many cases, they were in stable, committed relationships with other men, but pretended to be straight so as not lose their place in society, with their families and friends, or in the work place. They have a lot to gain by passing, and they assume they have a lot to lose by coming out. We did the series as an anthology because there is no singular way that one can be on the DL. Every story is a different cast, with different backgrounds, and different story arcs. We tell every perspective and attempt to cover every facet of the DL phenomenon from DL married man to the DL high school student who has never been married and who has never had a sexual encounter with another male, but knows he's different, and knows he has these desires, and has been convinced by his surroundings that he can't openly express these feelings.
How does it different from other LGBT pictures like Noah's Arc and Queer As Folk?
[Deondray Gossett] It differs from Queer as Folk in two ways: 1. It's an African American point of view, 2. And it deals mostly with men who are coming to terms with their sexuality as opposed to men who are already settled with who they are. It hasn't been studied, and this may be a huge miscalculation, but it has been my experience that a disproportionate amount African American men are still closeted when compared to their white counterparts. And I think this is because, contrary to political correctness, African Americans on the whole seem to be less tolerant of gays than their white counterparts. Again, this hasn't been studied; this is merely my own personal observation. There are a lot more outspoken anti-gay blacks per capita than whites. When you consider the US population of blacks and how many of them have come out publicly about their intolerance for gays (i.e., Tim Hardaway, Busta Rhymes, Church pastors, Ja Rule, Usher, Mos Def, 2 Pac, our family members, etc.) compared to whites who have done the same, the scale tips further on the black side. It differs from Noah's Arc in its attempt to tell the stories of those men who are often ignored and kept secret. We all know the out and proud gay man. It's the story that's getting told more and more in the white community; however, black gay media has not yet fully graduated to the out and proud phase, as a vast majority of us are still in the closet and still uncomfortable with being gay. The DL Chronicles is about the guy that is gay/bi but finds himself in circumstances that do not provide the atmosphere for him to safely come out. This is not to say that Noah's Arc doesn't have its place. It's a perfect companion to the stories of The DL Chronicles. While one helps usher DL men out of the darkness, the other celebrates freedom and self acceptance right in bold light. They are both needed as both sides of the fence still exist in significant numbers in the African American community.
Why a predominately black televised event?
[Deondray Gossett] Like it or not, the specific phrase "down low" was created by black people to denote anything that is a secret. The meaning has evolved and is now the infamous DL, which specifically references black men. Because we're trying to shed new light on the phenomenon, answer the "why's," and redefine the term, it wouldn't have been advantageous to call it "The Closet" as that encompasses more than just men of color. We wanted to tackle head-on, the very layered, very controversial DL
, which specifically denotes men of color and their specific set of circumstances, backgrounds, demographics, economics, and social standing. Calling it by any other name or casting white actors in the lead roles would derail from our original intentions. This is not to say that this phenomenon is specific to black men. We know that this phenomenon is universal and crosses race, class, and socio-economics; however we've seen those shows before. Brokeback Mountain is nothing more than the DL as it applies to white men, but somehow white stories about the Closet don't carry as much weight or stigma as the term DL. We wanted to attempt to lift that stigma and tell the whole unembellished story of so many men that we know. We wanted DL stories to be understood, and taken out of the sensationalism arena.What is the most significant episode of the televised event project and why? [Deondray Gossett] Every episode is significant. Every single one so far has had such an enormous impact on audiences across the US, Canada, South America, and the UK. Every episode dismantles a belief system or institution and turns it on its head and holds a mirror back to society and asks everyone who is watching, "What part do you play in this phenomenon?" What many don't realize is how much we all perpetuate and support the DL. The DL man is the executor, sure, but what about the homophobic society, what about the revered super-masculine male in the black culture, what about theintolerable openly gay guy who shuns everyone who is not out and proud, what about the mother who helps to raise effemophobes by carelessly throwing out phrases like, "don't be a sissy" or "Stop acting like a little girl," what about the fathers who condemn homosexuals openly to their sons as a right of passage or a form of masculine comradery, what about the pastor who preaches fire and brimstone for all sexual deviants, what about the hip hop artists who regularly call other rappers faggots as a way to demoralize and mame their reputations - the lowest form of disrespect, what about the gay guy who allows his lover to have a wife or girlfriend, what about the girl who doesn't ask for her lover's HIV status and doesn't regularly get tested, what about the gay guys who do the same? Homophobia is all around us, and we are all participants - gay or straight.
Why create such a televised event, and make it apart of your life's work?
[Deondray Gossett] If we weren't brave enough to address the issue in a meaningful way, it probably never would have been done in this manner. We know first hand about this phenomenon, and wanted to shed light on the truth, and the why's as opposed to the victim/predator stance that we are already so familiar with. It was a catharsis for us. Our wounds healed as we created and shot this show, and self love and acceptance comes out through the screen to the viewer in a way that's unthreatening, but really causes you to self-examine, and gives you some insight on how to live more authentically or shows you the consequences of living in-authentically.
Do you feel there is a difference between the men on the "DL" and"closeted" men?
[Deondray Gossett] Fundamentally, no. Culturally, yes. African American men have a separate set of social obligations and assumptions that are unique to them. For example, historically the emasculinization of African American men has done much to rip away a black man's identity and his place in society. He has been trying to find that place ever since. Today we see a phenomenon that is used as a defense mechanism, called the "cool pose". It's a kind of swagger that black men put on to preserver their masculinity and their place in society. Today we hear young kids calling it, "acting hard." It's the same thing. We see it in hip hop, on the street, in gangsters. If anything comes along that threatens this swagger and this new found place and respect in society, it has to be eliminated. It's sure and sudden social death for a black boy in the inner city to be labeled as a punk, pussy, or faggot, regardless of sexual preference. Hip hop has done a great deal epitomize black masculinity as the standard; however fictitious and unwarranted this may be, it's a great moment in time for black masculinity. It not only has found its place, but it has become the standard for American Masculinity. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to maintain this status, which is why hip hop finds itself so utterly anti-gay and homophobic- it's threatened by it because it stands to ruin everything that's been gained. Religion and black culture are so intertwined that they are almost indistinguishable from one another. There is a strong religious influence and pressure to not go against Biblical scripture and teachings. Many gay/bi black men feel that sex with another man is a sin against God, and fear the consequences of that behavior. Try as hard as they might to thwart these feelings and try to "save" themselves by marrying often find that the desire gnaws at them so strongly that they finally act on it, and before you know it, they have created a DL situation. The African American culture does little to include gay/lesbian figures in its history or its media. It's still a dark secret. However, white media has been unafraid to do this for some time. White youth seeing these images don't feel as alone or afraid of being who they are. It's only been with the creation of Noah's Arc, Punks, Brother to Brother, Dirty Laundry, and The DL Chronicles, that black gays/lesbians have been included into black society in a serious or meaningful sort of way.What has been the hardest struggle in the filming process?
[Deondray Gossett] Low Budgets and limited casting options. There are many African American actors both straight and gay who shy away from playing roles like these. Some are afraid of being type-cast (even if they are gay) while others just don't want to be thought of as gay.
In episode Wes, the first episode, it pictures a lawfully-wedded man having an affair with his brother-in-law. Why was this chosen as the pilot episode?
[Deondray Gossett] It was the episode that most resembled the scenario that people were accustomed to seeing when it came to the DL Phenomenon; however, as you watch the episode, you begin to understand the DL phenomenon from a different perspective. The story is complicated and doesn't try to choose a side. It humanizes every character involved and you get small glimpses into their minds and start to understand some of the reasons that they are all making the decisions that they're making. It was controversial on purpose. We wanted to get everyone's attention - the straits and the gays. After all, this show will do very little to change minds if we're always preaching to the choir. We had to provide something that was easily identifiable by all who watched, then once we got their attention, we began to detangle all of the misconceptions and assumptions about the DL in subsequent episodes.
The men cast in these pictures are the archetypes of attractive men. Was there a selected type of man that you were looking for in these pictures?
[Deondray Gossett] We had to cast men that were going to lure our target audiences: gay/bi men and strait women. This strategy has been very successful with getting our small and, at the time, independent film series some much needed hype. We knew going into this that we would be met with resistance from all sides on just the title alone. We were able to get people to forego the title and draw them in by the attractive lead cast members that were featured in our ad campaigns. Then once we got them in the seats, they got schooled. Not that this was supposed to be a "message" film, but it is supposed to be socially conscious, yet entertaining. You can laugh, cry, and shout, while watching the episodes, while all the while still being enlightened. We call the show "Edutainment." It's one of the best ways to administer a message without coming off so preachy and boring that people don't want to sit and listen. People have come out of our screenings with their mouths agape, not fully understanding how we packed so many messages, provided so much entertainment, and left people with so much to think about in just 30 minutes. Every decision we make about the show is calculated. Every aspect affects our decisions, from the target audience to the social climate.
In your opinion, which characters represented some of the experiences of that of you and your partner, respectively?
[Deondray Gossett] All of the characters represent us in some way or another. Each one has a small circumstance or behaves in a way that is reflective of me or Quincy, but I would say that the characters that most resemble us back when we were DL are the characters Mark (Ulrich Que) and Donte (Colbert Alembert) from episode: Mark. This is one of the only episodes that is based specifically on me and Quincy. We did the fake room thing when company or family would come visit. We would change the den into another room to pretend we were just roommates. We had family that would show up unannounced and want to spend the night, which would cause us stress because we'd have to fight over who would have to sleep in the fake room. It was ridiculous when we think back on those times, but it made perfect sense to us then, in those uncertain times when we weren't sure what coming out would do to our relationships with the people we loved; the same people who conveyed to us during our formative years their utter disdain for gay folks.
What do you think "DL" is seen as wrong in context in US pop and mainstream culture?
[Deondray Gossett] I believe that there are aspects of the DL that are wrong. No one should ever deceive or be deceived. This show never condones that kind of behavior, but sometimes we believe that an unfair emphasis gets placed on any infidelity that involves a woman and two men. Betrayal is betrayal, and it is always wrong; however when a man cheats with another man on a woman it becomes Armageddon not just a simple betrayal, and I think that unconsciously sends out hidden, negative messages. It's bigoted and a double-standard. It all stems from homophobia, hype, and the uneducated declaration that bi/gay men are passing HIV to their wives and girlfriends at an alarming rate. When in fact, it's one of the least common ways of transmission. Then there is an aspect of the DL that hurts no one but the person who is in hiding. There are a large number of men who don't involve women in their charades of heterosexuality. They are just simply trying to survive inside of this gay-hostile institution. It's simple a survival tactic, and I don't know if I could call that wrong. As an African American I used to conform to many ideals, belief systems, and social norms that I didn't have to do when I was alone at home. I did this to secure employment, get promotions, to survive. It's hard to categorize this simply as wrong. It's too complicated for such an easy categorization. I think it's necessary; however I am also aware of some of the dying you have to do in order to maintain this exterior. At some point, after living inauthentically for so long, you will begin to get so boxed in that you eventually will implode on yourself, and what's left is the real you. And once that happens, you feel completely whole, and then there's no turning back from that kind of resolution and freedom. The DL is complicated and can't be answered in short little antidotes, which again is why we had to do this series as an anthology. People like dichotomous, black and white answers to everything, but what we most often find is that there is no one answer for most questions. People are very uncomfortable with unknowns. That's why we despise the DL man so much. He's not easily identifiable. He breaks the rules. He's under the radar. He's an enigma. That bothers people.
In your experiences, what made it uncomfortable for you to just "come out"?
[Deondray Gossett] Read my answers above and add that I was also very strong in my Christian faith. I knew what the Bible said, I knew what my father felt about gays, my grandmother threatened to disown me. I had no choice, but to hide or keep the feelings in check... neither were successful.
Why don't these indivivduals just "come out?"
[Deondray Gossett] For all the reasons I said above plus the fear of being ostracized, loss of family, and sometime loss of life. People seem to forget that gays are still being attacked on the streets - google the recent attacks in Jamaica, New York, Los Angeles, Africa, Colorado, Detroit, Chicago, and Texas.
Why did you decide to "come out"?
[Deondray Gossett] I had to live authentically. When a rumor got out about me being gay to some of my closest friends, rather than deny it again, I decided to call my mother and tell her the truth. To my astonishment, she said she already knew and had known since I was a kid. After I told my mother, not much else mattered. Plus, as I said earlier, once you get a taste of your authentic self, there's no going back. It took some years to tell some other people in my family, but it got easier and easier each time, and it wasn't always accepted with open arms, but it also wasn't as traumatic as it had been for some friends of mine who had been put out of the house and disowned by their families. My family had to reconsider everything that they had previously believed about gay people. They loved me, and had to reconcile this inside of their minds in order to still be in my life.
On the right is author and media commentator, Keith Boykin. Boykin had written best-selling books on the "Down-Low"
Are there any regrets in "coming out"?
[Deondray Gossett] Not one.
What are some of the dangers of being on the "DL"?
[Deondray Gossett] Not being your true authentic self can lead to self loathing and also distance you from the people you love whether you notice it or not. After coming out, people would tell me that sometimes I would seem so guarded that they didn't really know me at all and my coming out makes us closer. Also, in the case of the DL men who have women, but sleep with other men, or vice-versa, it's never cool to be dishonest when it comes to matters of the heart. Unless there is some mutual agreement made between partners, no one should be stepping out on their relationships. As far as HIV is concerned, we should NOT be trying to figure out if people are on the DL, but rather seek out self responsibility. Even married couples, straight or gay, should periodically be getting tested for HIV. If we stay in denial about so-called marriages or committed relationships, we will continue to see HIV rates increase.
What has been the proudest moment in creating this project?
[Deondray Gossett] When my grandmother came to a screening, and came to me afterward and gave me a huge kiss and told me congratulations on a job well done. I knew that we had succeeded at what we were trying to do.
What are some of the hopes that you and your partner have in broadcasting this project?
[Deondray Gossett] We want it to spark dialogue. We want to change minds. We wish for a society where the DL no longer has to exist. It won't happen over night, but we want to do our part in pushing things in that direction.
The project has been a success and has captured the attention of Here! Now, an LGBT channel. Why broadcast on the project on Here! Now?
[Deondray Gossett] The here! channel was the only channel that was going to allow us to do the show without modifications. They were the only ones that were willing to take a chance with airing the show just as it was. They were on the same page with us since Day 1.
Any advice to men on the "DL"?
[Deondray Gossett] For the ones who are in relationships and sleeping with men on the side, I simply say get out of that relationship. It's not fair to your spouse. It doesn't mean you have to come out, but dragging someone along while you try to figure yourself out is unfair. There are other ways to keep your sexuality a secret without having a wife or a girlfriend for cover. Watch the show. It may give you insight on how to make the best transition.For those DL men who aren't involved with women, I'm not forcing you out of the closet. Only you know when it's safe to tell someone, if you ever decide to. In the meantime, watch the show. It can be a very lonely feeling when you seem to be going through this alone. You will see yourself in an episode eventually, and it may be just the thing you need to plan a course of action that could change your life.
See Fahari-Libertad original: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=161658877&blogID=354656290
Look out for the overall product of the"men on the dl" ArtVoice article soon!
Look out for the overall product of the"men on the dl" ArtVoice article soon!
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